#186: Going From Solo Cleaner to First Hire, with Ashley O'Keeffe

Hello, my friends.

I cannot wait for you to hear this incredible episode with Ashley.

This is a consulting style episode, and she has such great questions, especially if you're like teetering on a big growth spurt or looking to get out of the field, hire staff members.

We go into a lot of nitty gritty advice, as well as production rates, auditing, all of that good stuff.

This is your content advisory warning, though.

I do swear a decent amount in this, including the F word.

So if you have little ears, put those earbuds in.

Save this one for later.

Regardless, hit that like and enjoy.

This is Filthy Rich Cleaners, presented by ZenMaid, the podcast where real cleaning business owners share what works, so you can earn more, stress less, and make your business filthy rich.

Hello, friends.

Welcome or welcome back to the Filthy Rich Cleaners podcast.

I'm your host Stephanie from Serene Clean, and today's fabulous guest is Miss Ashley O'Keefe, and she is in Hanover, Virginia.

She has the coolest cleaning business name, AOK Pristine Clean.

If I could spit it out, AOK as in her initials, which is very, very clever.

Ashley, love the name.

Thank you for joining me today.

Thank you for having me.

I'm so excited and nervous.

No need to be nervous.

We are, we're gonna have a blasty blast.

So, tell me, Ashley, are you always have you always been from Virginia?

That's a weird way to ask that.

Are you originally from Virginia?

Born and raised, born and raised, never left, never went anywhere else for a second.

We thought we were moving to Georgia, and my family freaked all the way out.

So, yeah, I'm just I'm from Virginia.

Never been anywhere else.

That's awesome.

What did you do before you opened your cleaning business?

I was a stay-at-home mom for a few years, and when I decided I was ready to go back to work, I tried working for another company, and I probably only made it like six months.

And it wasn't even really because of the company.

I mean, they definitely had policies that I didn't love, like using rags to clean toilets and whatnot.

I didn't love that.

But besides that, my kids were really, really young, and I felt like I was calling out a lot, and it just wasn't really a good time for me to be an employee.

But right after leaving there, I picked up some of my own houses, and it kind of just it snowballed.

And I'm not really big right now, but it's getting big fast.

Like, on the Facebook groups, my name is repeated over and over and over again.

I posted something to my social media the other day for the first time, and that brought in a lot of leads very quickly.

So that's kind of what's been going on the past couple of years.

You're in a very exciting phase where things are just like taking off, and I know you have a couple staff members now, right?

I have a couple of 1099s, and I tried a W2.

Y'all were asking me if I had like any crazy horror stories.

The W2 happened after I signed up for this, and now now I have a story, and I can get into that whenever you'd like.

Oh, right now is the time.

I would say let's hear it.

Okay, so I really do want W2 employees, but I've been having a hard time finding them, and I'm probably going to wind up needing to pay for Indeed or whatever.

But I posted on Facebook that I was looking to hire, and this girl that I went to school with reached out to me, and she's got a bad reputation on it, honestly, like she's got a drug history and all these things, just a terrible reputation.

I'm sensitive to the drug addiction thing just because I don't have addiction issues, but people I'm very close to me do.

So I looked at her background and she didn't have like theft charges or anything crazy like that.

So I was like, I'll give her a try.

She made it a day and a half, and we were cleaning this house.

And I noticed after like 30 minutes, I hadn't seen her, and I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna find this chick like passed out somewhere.

Like, so I went.

The homeowner was there, and she's really chill lady.

So I was like, Can you look at your camera and see if she left?

And of course, the camera wasn't working at the time.

Eventually, she decided to text me and was like, I'm sorry.

Like, I just freaked out.

I don't know what's wrong with me.

I can't do this.

And I was like, and she had left her purse in my car because, like, I'm just trying to make a long story short, basically.

But like, I had gone to a gas station to pick her up that morning, and she didn't show up.

I pulled up to the customer's house, and she was sitting on the front porch waiting on me.

I was like, I mean, we just talked about this, that I'm gonna pick you up at Wawa, but yeah, she has some addiction issues, and she just ghosted me.

Everybody told me not to hire her, but I was like, I've seen addicts like make a comeback, like maybe this will be her comeback story, and I can say that I took part in that.

But lesson learned, don't hire meth heads.

We've had that lesson stated many times on the pod.

Unfortunately, though they can clean fast, they can be a bit sporadic on their behavior.

So it's tough.

I think, especially when you, I think a lot of us have experienced pretty much exactly what you're saying.

Maybe not necessarily with addiction, but with people who are not like we're doing it because of we want.

I don't know if it's like a savior complex or one of like, I can, I can help you, I can fix you, right?

And I want to be that path, and you want to be that light for people.

But I think especially when in the beginning, like, you're so, I don't want to use the word fragile in a negative connotation, but it's like a little baby bird, you have to protect, and anything can crush it.

And so you just had that crushed.

Yeah.

So that was, and I've been afraid to really hire anybody legitimately because I didn't even have time to get all of like the government paperwork sent in before she was gone.

But I mean, no, no, no.

That's been my luck with employees so far.

My 1099s have been fine, but well, and honestly, like if you're doing, you know, if you're growing, it's not a bad thing to start out with 1099s as long as everything's on the up and up.

It's not a bad thing.

You can always transition until you have more.

I would say stable hours.

But just remember, that's one person out of you know what is it, seven billion on the planet.

Like, not everybody's a meth head.

I promise.

Or mine, not meth head.

I'm looking for you.

Yeah, you just need a couple.

You just need a couple.

You'll get a diamond in the rough, and then things will really start to escalate.

But you are in a very, I would say, challenging part of things are getting to the point that it can't all be on you from the schedule?

Like, that's not possible to do all of the appointments, I would imagine.

So now you have to rely on other people.

But in this stage of business, it's like, yeah, it's just that fragile.

It's fragile.

It's very discouraging because you're gonna have like probably pretty rapid turnover.

Like, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that's not gonna happen again.

You know, you can of course filter of like, oh, they didn't listen to instructions.

They didn't show up to Wawa when I told them to.

Like red flags type of thing.

But it's just a muscle you'll build, and also you'll just, I think, get over the disappointment, like in the fear, faster.

Because, yeah, I mean, I think I made an episode with my like first ten employees, and like there was some true nightmares in there.

And I'm so glad I didn't like say, "Well, screw it.

Clearly, this isn't going to work."

Yeah, right.

We wouldn't be having this conversation.

So that is what I am going to implore you, is like, don't give up.

Yeah, I'm not.

But I mean, it kind of made me go like, maybe I should just do 1099s forever.

But I feel it's important to me to be able to control the quality of the work.

Like, you can't with 1099s.

It's either cleaners or they're not.

Well, and I really think that like it's gonna be probably like you just probably got lucky with a couple good ten, nine, ten, ninety-nines.

It can be difficult both ways, like you said, of like getting quality issues and really like having the rules the way you want.

That could be another pain point that you just haven't experienced on that side yet.

So like they both can be very challenging.

And if you want that level of control, and I think like this is probably a very like you're in a, you're responding to what just happened.

Of like, oh, I'll just always stay like, I don't think we should ever use always or never, especially when something bad just happened.

Like, you can, you can stay like this for now, and if the goal ultimately, I mean, in a year, you could have ten employees.

We don't know, so it'll be okay and it will work out.

I promise.

With W2, if that's what you want, you're just going to have to put a process in place to get a lot more people in front of, in front of your eyeballs.

Yeah, but you just recently started using Indeed, didn't you?

Yeah, so we've used Indeed since day one, but not paid.

So Indeed has pretty much eradicated any like ability to skirt around their rules, like we have been like doing for years, basically, which meant what we do to get pushed towards the top of the search results previously in Indeed or the not sponsored jobs is we would just pause a job, copy it, and make a new job off of that copy, so we get pushed to the top.

That doesn't work anymore.

They won't let you do it in that manner anymore.

So we do pay.

I do not regret paying.

I think that, considering one employee can make us, you know, how much money a year, and that's like truly the only way for us to grow, and it's why we were struggling so bad last year.

Like, I just have accepted it.

You know what I mean?

Of paying for it.

So I think it's well worth it because that is it solved our hiring problem for the most part.

So I don't think it's a bad thing.

But just making sure that your job listing is the best it possibly can be and selling yourself, you know.

So keep that in mind too, is like, oh, I'm not getting results.

Like, well, what does the job listing look like?

Right now, it would just I don't have anything to offer other than flexibility really.

Flexibility.

Yep.

Yeah, I'd love to be able to offer insurance and 401k match and everything down the line.

Well, and you will be able to.

And I think like when I talk to my staff members who have been with me the longest, what they say the most, it's not our benefits, it's not the pay, it's nothing.

It's like the respect and flexibility.

All of my best staff are moms.

They are parents, just in general.

They are busy.

They can't work a traditional nine to five.

So they are still so appreciative of that, and of the respect, and of that type of care.

And there is a lot of like, I would say affordable routes you can take before.

Like we think that they want 401ks because some, some of them do, but before that, there's other things that we could do with like the bonuses or like the spin the wheel benefit that, like, that's all of my staff members say, that's their favorite benefit, is our spin the wheel, where they, like, by their behavior.

They can qualify to spin the wheel in the office for fabulous cash prizes or gift cards or whatever PTO, that type of thing.

So, like, there are things that you probably could do that are creative, not that expensive, and only happen based on their good behavior, which means you're making money, right?

So, don't discount that flexibility.

That's going to be attractive to a lot of people.

You interviewed one girl whose ideal idea, I think, I want to steal.

She gives bonuses based off of not missing work.

Like they would get a month without calling, they get such and such bonus.

And I think that maybe my previous employer might have watched you too, because she did the spin the wheel thing, which we all, yeah, it's amazing, it's awesome.

Watched you too.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And so I think, yeah, bonuses based on the behavior that you want, and then you know, even if there is anything that you do in the community, like if you are gonna be a member for Cleaning for a Reason, if you are gonna do any like free cleanings in general or donating locally, like to the right people who like align with your core values and the culture that you want to build, if that is the culture you want to build, that's gonna mean a lot to them.

Like that means a lot to my team.

They really like that with their work.

We are doing good things, and again, it doesn't have to be a lot.

You could donate twenty-five bucks a month, but just then being able to say on your Indeed page, like, do you want to work for a company that aligns with your values because you care about your community?

If so, we're the place for you, and this is what you can expect, right?

And really, selling like who you are as a person.

I mean, I am curious.

Have you like really thought about what you want your core values to be in the company?

The first thing that comes to mind is integrity, just doing the right thing when nobody's watching.

That's the first thing that comes to mind.

I haven't really thought about it.

Yeah, no, that's one of ours.

I mean, we only have three, and you know, I could definitely think of more things that we want.

But when I think about everybody who works out, they all embody that, and really explaining like what do these things mean to us, and putting that on the Indeed, like we like we only want to work with people who align with these things, and we hold very strongly to them, right?

And I think especially if you can, a lot of people have been so burned from former workplaces that if you can just really highlight and say like we know what that feels like because we've experienced this, and it's not going to be like that here, and then just do the thing, you know?

So yeah, just really, really selling yourself in the Indeed listing.

Yeah.

So I didn't, you know, I don't mean to dominate and just be like, advice, advice, advice, but you know, that's that might be where this conversation takes it.

So you've had this struggle with W2.

You are with the independent contractors.

Talk me.

I want to go back to getting those clients.

So has it always been through Facebook?

Or you said, you know, you kind of glossed over, like, oh, I just started getting clients.

How did that happen?

I think like, I would I clean for a friend.

That friend told an aunt.

That aunt told her bestie.

So, like, mainly been word of mouth.

Well, at first it was all word of mouth.

Like, I didn't even really advertise myself on Facebook.

And then once I created the LLC, then I made a Facebook page, and from there a couple more customers came.

And after, after that, like, my name is probably one of the most commented.

Anytime, yeah, like anytime I see somebody on Facebook looking for a cleaner, I get a lot of tags, which I'm so thankful for.

But that's, I haven't had to pay for any advertising.

I've been very fortunate with that.

I think this is a really wonderfully common experience when people are starting out and they have that type of community that does that thing.

You know, that has the Facebook groups.

Not every community does, but for the most part, I think most do now.

And yeah, that is like the most amazing thing because that word of mouth business, you're not having to pay for it, and people believe it because you're not paying for it.

They're like, oh, you know, I believe this person.

They have no reason to to lie about this or any financial gain from it.

So I love to hear that.

As for any other sources, so it's been purely Facebook and word of mouth.

You haven't paid for it.

What is your website?

What do you have a website yet?

I do.

I would.

I would like for it to be a little bit better.

Like, I need to take more pictures to put on the website.

I'd like for the booking form to be a little bit more accurate.

Like, I feel like a lot of the times, I'm not happy with the price that it comes up with for me.

Or no, that, yeah, that's accurate.

I'm not really normally happy with the price that it comes up with for me.

Like, I'm going to.

I don't really do this isn't true.

I was about to say I don't really do walkthroughs for estimates, but I'm actually doing one tomorrow because this is a bigger house than I've ever done before.

It's there's a successful real estate agent in the area that probably found me because of that recent Facebook post I made.

I was like playing with my chickens and singing to my chickens and stuff, and that got a lot of.

So, I think that's how she found me.

And tomorrow I'm gonna go quote her house in person, just because it's way bigger than a house I've done before.

And I have a couple commercial clients.

It's mainly residential right now, but I want to do.

I had a lady leave me a voicemail yesterday asking me if I just wash windows.

I haven't even returned her call because I don't know what to do with that one.

Like, I've never done exterior window, but I don't really want to say no.

But, I yes, you do, you do want to say no.

We just had one of our clients ask about window cleaning, actually, like external.

And I mean, we could reach them from the ground, and we're still saying no because we don't want to blur that lines of like we're not window cleaners.

So, you're definitely in the dangerous, like you're getting a lot of shit coming at you, meaning like potential business, but really, really, really have to watch the discipline of being able to say no, because what you just said of like I don't know what to do with this, but I don't want to say no.

Well, there's other money to be made just on normal houses.

You don't have to be climbing on ladders and doing like what if you break your ankle?

You know what I mean?

There goes all the you know, like, so it's just, we don't, we don't have to do that.

There's another house that you could do.

So I'm gonna, and the reason I'm saying this is because younger Stephanie, that's the reason that like we jokingly say, but not jokingly at all.

Stephanie is not allowed to talk on the phone because we will be cleaning gutters and painting apartments and probably cleaning up dead bodies.

Like, if, if I am allowed to be on the phone because I can't say like, I, I want to.

I'm like, yeah, we can do that.

We can figure it out.

Like, there's money to be made.

So, but it always is bad.

Like, it never works out in the way that I hope, and or like my cleaners are pissed at me because they're like, "This isn't what I was hired for," you know what I mean?

And then if window washing, for this example, you don't want to go down that path.

And then this lady says, "Yeah, she did my windows," and then you start getting calls for windows.

Like, do you want to clean windows?

Because look what's happened with house cleaning, you know?

Like, is that if that is an avenue you want to look at, that's fine, but you're probably not ready to go down that path unless you subbed it out to actual window cleaners.

Then maybe that could be an option too.

Yeah, I'm... No.

I'm not.

I don't think I really want to.

But you, the joke about dead bodies, funny.

I could see myself expanding to like crime scene cleanup because I'm your typical like crime junky girl listening to the murder shows and stuff.

I could see myself expanding and having a branch that deals with crime scene cleanup or something like that.

So I just interviewed two weeks ago.

Our, and it's not even live yet.

It's going to go live in the next couple of weeks.

Our, like, I'd never talked to one before, a biohazard cleaner before, and it was so interesting.

We talked for like two hours.

So by the time this one, our conversation here is live, that one probably is live, and it was fascinating.

I don't know if I would do it, but it was interesting, and I think it can be pretty lucrative.

And a lot of people don't want to do it, so there's business there.

Yeah.

So the possibilities.

I mean, I even thought about like car detailing for a second, but I'm not good at cleaning my own car, so I'm definitely not ready for that.

But I just like how there is different avenues, avenues that you, yeah, yeah, totally, and I think the and I like it's wonderful, the possibilities, but it's also dangerous, the possibilities.

And so again, just word of caution, of don't be Jill of all trades and master of none, because things get very chaotic the more that you accept when it comes to that stuff.

Like if you can just grow and do houses and businesses right now, just do that.

You know, if you can make money on the simpler path, just do that.

And that was, I would say, one of some of my biggest mistakes looking back, was trying to introduce services that I had no business doing, whether that be carpet cleaning, window cleaning, et cetera, et cetera.

Because, yeah, I've thought about like, oh, we should car detail.

We should do all like, I, I want to do all these things, but then I'm like, cool.

Like, how are we actually going to make that happen to the level of excellence that I wanted?

Like, like if I'm going to do something, I want to be the best at it.

Like, otherwise, it doesn't feel good from an integrity standpoint to offer that service.

So if I can't do that and I'm not willing to do that, then I'm not going to.

I shouldn't do it.

That's kind of my rule now.

Yeah, I'm just going to stay in my lane for a little while until I get this.

Yeah, look, at it's going so well.

You're getting, you know, leads pouring in, and that's just from completely free advertising.

So I think you're on the right path.

Of, there's the demand.

How big is your city?

Richmond is.

Are you familiar with Richmond, Virginia?

Yep.

Mhm.

So I'm just outside of Richmond.

Oh, perfect.

Yeah, there's plenty of business then.

Yeah, I mean, if I wanted to go into the city, I very easily could.

It's probably, it's like 40 minutes from me.

Okay.

Well, talk to me.

I mean, I know you listed that.

You know, you're like, okay, with like, you know, just this being more of an advice conversation.

So I want to open it up to you.

Like, what is it that you feel like you're struggling with the most right now?

Hiring is the biggest thing.

I've been tossing around doing the Debbie Sardone.

I don't know the what is it?

The CBF.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't even know how much it costs yet, but I feel like it's probably outrageous.

I'm afraid.

But I'm going to say that there's a lot of resources available that would not you wouldn't need to go down that path.

So that's one thing I wrote down.

What do you think I should do about like to nail tomorrow's walkthrough?

I've done walkthroughs before, but like I said, not in a mansion like this.

What is your advice?

Well, I think, you know, I'm just coming off of I just went to CleanCon, which was amazing, and one of the things that stands out to me from your question here was actually Drew Larison's talk, and he talked about how part of sales really needs, like, we need to lean more heavily into really understanding our client.

Of like, and, and the question that he brought up was, why today?

Why are you reaching out today?

What is it that happened?

Was it yesterday or whenever she called?

Like, what was the catalyst of her reaching out to you?

What does she need?

What's the problem, right?

And really leaning into that because if she reached out to you, like, she's already obviously seen.

I'm assuming she saw your Facebook.

She saw how people are raving about you.

So it is a part of like educating her, but I really want you to lean into understanding, like, what is she looking for?

What stresses her out?

What areas make her feel ashamed or overwhelmed?

Or just really understanding the needs of the client from a feeling standpoint?

I have definitely failed at when I used to do in person walkthroughs.

I feel like I failed at this because I just, I was so rigid and I focused on like, okay, this is the bedroom, this is the bathroom, cool.

Like, and just, just like walking through the house, and they were so awkward and I was so awkward because instead of trying to connect on an emotional level, I was so focused on presenting myself professionally.

I didn't want to like lean into that at all.

So if I were to go back to in person walkthroughs, it would be really understanding their emotional, like, not emotional needs, but the emotional side of why are they asking for this?

What is going on beneath the surface?

Not just the walkthrough the house and like, understand why does this person even need a cleaner?

You know, why are they asking you for this?

Or have they make sure that you ask?

Have they had a professional cleaner before?

What was that experience like?

Is there anything that you didn't prefer?

And, and make sure you ask past the cleaning, too.

So this is something that we always want to ensure we ask when we're talking to a lead is have you had a cleaner before?

And what was that like?

Like, so it wasn't just maybe that maybe they were a killer cleaner, maybe they were the best cleaner in your whole city, but they called out, you know, they didn't show up every other time, or they were shitty communicators, or the pricing was all over the place, or whatever the thing is, right?

And then you can, like, that's your cue of cool.

I'm gonna nail that for this woman.

Outside of that, when it comes to, and you guys can chime in the comments if this has been your experience, our experience with very very large houses is typically they are not willing to pay, in my humble opinion, the correct price for what they have in house because it's like they expect the price, like as if they expect like a quantity discount of square footage.

Like the bigger their houses, the cheaper it gets, because there's more house or something.

And it's not like that at all.

Like we don't do that, because the way we see it, yes, if I can get this house and it's an eight-hour day, for example, for somebody every week, that's awesome.

But if I could make that same money with two four-hour houses, or should I say, if I could make more money with that same labor hours just across a couple houses, I'm gonna do that.

So, we really do not discount bigger houses.

It's definitely been I've seen that pattern over time of like these big big houses, six thousand, seven thousand, eight thousand square-foot houses, and they want to pay literally half of what it should be.

And so, keep that in mind.

I would also say, like, is there a budget in mind?

What's the frequency that you're looking for?

And really understand the scope of work as well.

Are you working off of cleaning checklists in any capacity?

Yes and no.

Like, since it's just, it's mostly just me right now, and 1099s, I don't have a checklist, but I definitely want to implement that when I get my own W-2 employee.

And I guess this is kind of related, but something you said when we were talking about the big house was like the bathrooms are different, and just every house is different.

And the previous employer I used to work for, she had like a, like, rooms needed to be timed, basically like a bathroom.

She expected to be done in 45 minutes, and I just feel like that's not.

I'm sure I know a lot of cleaners do it this way, but all bathrooms are different.

Like my bathroom would take somebody 30 minutes, but this lady's bathroom could take me two hours.

Kind of what I'm preparing for, and I, the ZenMaid thing estimated the price at almost a thousand dollars, and I just can't imagine me telling somebody it's going to cost you a thousand dollars every other week for me to clean your house.

Like, she appears to be rich, I'm sure she could afford it.

How big is the house?

What's the square footage?

It's a 4,000 square foot house with four bedrooms, three full baths, and one plus a half bath.

Okay, that would probably take us about six hours every visit.

I would say, depending on how frequent, could be a little biweekly, yeah.

So I think that would probably be about.

So what I just did, I just divided by four thousand divided by six hundred fifty square foot per hour, which is on a little bit of the slower side of our maintenance cleans.

So if it is, we're talking like large master bathrooms and stuff, that is a bit protective.

So I would think like six to seven hours.

And so, what is your hourly rate that you're trying to aim for internally for you?

It averages out to about fifty dollars.

So then six times fifty, if that's what you're aiming for, that'd be three hundred bucks of cleaning.

That sounds exactly right for that size of a house.

So for us, when we're doing like, we don't do in-person residential walkthroughs, but commercial walkthroughs, we literally have an iPad or not an iPad, a tablet, any tablet flavor you like.

We have a cheap tablet that just has the Google Drive spreadsheet calculator on it, and we're literally plugging in the counts of like, this is how many urinals, this is how many sinks, this is how many whatever the heck's offices, stairwells, everything, and then by the time we get back to the office, it's already spit out the bid that we should like aim for, depending on what we're trying to shoot for hourly, right?

And that we can change that number of, like, we don't think that they have it in them to go for $55 an hour internally, but could we do $52?

You know, and like, we can play with it there.

So I would definitely, especially if you feel like generic numbers are not like-for-like the bathroom thing, absolutely, that is one of the hardest parts about I would say the first time clean estimate, especially we're blind, we do not go do the walkthroughs.

As you mentioned, you don't usually, you know, if they have a master bath with a walk-in shower and one of those big like climb-in tubs, I mean, we're talking double, double the time for that.

So it could be an hour and a half to two hours for that first-time clean of that bathroom.

So if that's the case, that's why we do add a, you know, a bit of well, first times are significantly more for that same house, of course, but we kind of we ask our cleaners to just confirm like if they think the maintenance time of what we are setting forth is that reasonable, and you can always adjust and be like, "What you could do with this woman is do the first time clean and say, you know, tentatively we're going to do this," and then I will confirm after that first maintenance clean, and we'll get that locked in for you.

But I'm thinking it's going to be this range.

If you're if you're afraid, so has she?

Do you know?

Is it is the house clean now, or what's the state of it right now?

She said that she has had it professionally cleaned.

She's just not happy with it.

So you'll be able to see that detail.

Yeah.

So your first time clean of that may not be an actual initial like clean, because for us an initial clean of that house, if it hadn't had a professional cleaner, we would estimate that to take twenty-six point-six hours.

So, for the initial clean of that same house, if it hadn't been professionally cleaned, so what I would suggest is going a little bit over a maintenance clean.

You're going to see it, which is a nice thing.

Do you feel like you could get that whole thing done in eight hours?

Charge a little bit more on that first time to account for that extra time, and then come in at the lower price for the maintenance.

But after that first time clean, you may be even able to say, yeah, like six hours is going to be enough, and say, like, this is what you know.

And you can literally just explain it so you don't feel like you're being wishy-washy.

Just say this is the process.

This is how this works.

We use a lot of that language to make ourselves seem very confident, even if we just made are making shit up on the spot.

This is how this process works, is we have your initial clean.

The price is going to be this.

It's a bit higher because, as we see, the details are not where they need to be.

We're going to bring that all up to our maintenance level.

Now we are tentatively planning to have your maintenance cleans at this price.

We will confirm this after that first either initial clean or after your first maintenance clean, and then you will be locked in.

That's the same price every single time, unless you wanted to add on, you know, a deep clean task.

And these are the prices for that, right?

Like, what do we want to do here?

So just very confident and matter of fact, of like, this is the process, right?

And don't really like, even though I said do a lot of discovery, that is probing to understand like her needs and like what's bothering her.

That's not to try to figure out like, well, like, like, like, I guess, don't let her or any other client allow you to piece together.

If she says, like, "Oh, you don't need to dust in this room, but you do in this, or only the floors in this room," whatever, we really try to avoid that as much as possible because it's confusing, especially once you bring in another staff member.

It's not because it's so different.

Like, if we're making basically a unique task list for every house, that's not going to work.

So, coming back to the checklist thing, the reason I asked you, even though you know you're using 1099s, you don't have W2s, I would love to see you get that structure in place now because, one, it makes it easier for you to explain your value to, like, this woman.

If you had like the law, I wish I had.

I don't need to have a printed checklist, so I could show you guys.

But I'm holding up my fake checklist here.

Like, if you saw that as a potential customer, that "wow" factor is there because now it's all tangible because you and every other cleaner that she is going to potentially meet with is probably going to say similar stuff, right?

Like, yeah, we can, we clean top to bottom, like you know, that's what everybody says, right?

That's what her current cleaner is probably saying, and she's doing a shit job.

So, like, or he, it might be a man, you know, he might be doing a shit job.

So the fact is that the physical checklist is a sales mechanism because it explains and shows what you do, not just tells.

And people really have like a wow factor when they see that extensive checklist.

So that's why we use it.

And then for training, it's fantastic.

For a new hire, like they don't know what the hell they're doing, and you telling them is not going to be a great experience.

So, like, getting that in place now is going to help.

Like, it's such a cornerstone aspect of Serene Clean being able to like go, and I think any company being able to like go more smoothly is everybody's working off the same list of stuff we should be doing, right?

Being able to give an accurate price, a hard and firm price, after like the second clean.

I love that you said that because I actually did that with one of my more recent clients that I brought on.

I gave her a price for the first clean, and I said, and this is what I believe your maintenance cleans will be at, but I'll give you a hard price after the second or third cleaning.

And did it work?

That has been great.

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Okay, awesome.

I love that.

That's great to hear.

You know, because I know you, if you're listening, you know, we just switched over to flat rate these past few months, and so it's been a learning process.

And that was one of my, I guess, big scares, is, well, what about those situations, right?

And you simply just you adjust.

Like, for example, on my operations meeting today, one of our like running tasks we do is we look over basically, after three maintenance cleans, we want to audit.

Did we price enough?

Right?

Like, are we?

So the one we looked at today that we were questioning, we it needed to get done in three and a half hours in order for us to be hitting the target we wanted.

And two of the cleanings were at like three point seven five or four hours.

So it's like, does this need to be adjusted?

They just had their third one.

She hit one of our, you know, more one of our great cleaners that is not necessarily the speediest.

She hit three and a half, no problem, no quality issues, cool.

It can be done.

We're going to keep it there.

If it could not have been done, what would have happened?

Is one of two things.

We would have given the client these options.

Say, hey, now that we've done a few maintenance cleans, we are going to be adjusting the if you want the whole, you can do two things we can adjust the rate to get the whole house done, or we can switch more to a priority clean model and we are going to work off of your priority list and get as much done as we can as possible.

Which option do you want to take, basically, and put the ball back in their court?

So we've had to do that a couple times as those slight minor adjustments because we didn't estimate enough for whatever reason, you know, so, so keep that in mind.

It doesn't have to be locked in if you mess up on price.

It's even if you go see it, it's hard, you know.

Well, this is something that is probably a no, no, but I haven't implemented like contracts yet, like I haven't had any clients sign anything, which I know is not professional and I'll need to change that at some point.

But have you, have you found that you've needed those con, like, have you been sued?

I guess is what I'm getting at.

So we've never gotten sued.

Have we got sued?

Well, not, not on the client side.

We've never gotten sued.

So, yes, I think, and you can call it a con.

We call it our customer guidelines or client guidelines, and everybody, we will not step foot into a house without that being signed.

And I think that this is going to be a huge, could be a very big lesson, painful lesson, and you don't even know what it is yet, like because it could be about seven thousand different things because you're not having them sign and say yes, this is what we're agreeing to.

So I think number one, ours are literally on our website for anybody to access.

If you want to throw me a bone for it, you can buy it for $20, or you can just access and see ours.

It's right on Serene Clean's website, so that any of our clients can access it too.

So literally, it's right there, and along with AI, like you can, you can decide what your policies are.

Obviously, those policies are specific to what you know is important to us and our experience.

But those have been like painfully trial by fire because we've had shit happen.

So, so you haven't had anything bad enough yet to like feel like you need to do this.

But I'm gonna tell you right now, and like I want, like I, this could be done by the, this.

It's Wednesday.

This could be done by Friday.

Literally, that's how fast this could be.

Literally, make it into a PDF.

Go get SignRequest, which is $8 a month.

Send an email out to all of your current clients saying, hey, just want everybody to be on the same page.

Here are here are updated guidelines before your next cleaning.

Get this signed so we have it.

You know, and if you have any questions, just let me know.

All future clients is just part of your onboarding process.

They sign it before.

So like, it like I think with a lot of these things we are like, oh my gosh, this is a big thing.

It's like, no, this could be done, especially with AI guys, it can be so fast of just getting something, and then something's gonna happen in your business, something crazy, and you're gonna have to adjust, but at least this will get something in place to protect you.

And there is, like, trust me, there will be nothing more satisfying than when a client's trying to pull bullshit, and then you're like, well, actually, according to your signature at 12:57 on October 10th, you agreed that this is what we're doing here.

Because if you want to do a cancellation policy, you know, enforce like any of those things, you know, I could think of so many, you know, if you break something, like, how do you handle that?

If they try to solicit one of your employees, how do you handle that?

Like, all of these things.

So, especially, like, I guess we haven't even really talked about, you know, I want to like...

What is your goal?

What's your like?

What would you like to accomplish with this business ultimately, as well as maybe within the next year?

So I can tailor the advice a little bit more.

Well, I don't mind cleaning right now.

But I know I don't, I don't know, but I imagine that I'm not going to be able to do this for the next 40 years.

I don't want.

I mean, I don't want to screw my back up for life or anything like that.

So I would like to be able to just do the admin type stuff, or do what you do, and just like completely back away and let other people handle it.

Like I love that idea too.

So I guess what I'm all that to be said.

I guess I just need to look to look at the next year.

What do I want for that?

I want to finally have some employees, is what I want.

Well, that absolutely can happen, a hundred percent.

So, with your ten ninety nines currently, what is their workload looking like?

Like, how many hours do they do?

They each have?

How much are you cleaning right now?

I'm doing most of the cleaning.

I only one of my two of my ten ninety nines are actually just friends that are helping me out.

Absolutely, yeah.

I have one legitimate ten ninety nine who is just strictly cleans for me, and she only probably does like two to three houses a month.

Okay, so very little.

You're pretty much doing most of the workload right now.

Yeah, I mean, those friends I was telling you about, they come with me to a couple, well, one commercial location twice a month.

So yeah, I mean, mainly.

I'm mainly doing it all myself, but I have enough work to where I could hire a W2, and then I'd be able to take on more.

Like, I'm getting to the point now where I'm going to have to start turning down work, and I don't, I don't want to have to do.

Yeah, I would love to see you back off the cleaning, especially, and then stay backed off and just start hiring and transitioning clients off of, off of you, if that's the ultimate goal, because you're going to be tempted if you're already almost loaded up.

If you hire, you're going to keep your loaded up schedule, and then you're going to load them up, and then they're going to quit, and you're going to want to jump off a building.

So this is why it's so important that we get your schedule cleared, so that you can be the backup.

Like, that's what the owner's role is when you are like owner operator.

And you start hiring, we're gonna, we are so tempted to like, keep all of our clients and then load up somebody else because more money, right?

And you don't have to give any of that up, but it is so highly likely that those first couple cleaners that you hire are not going to work out in some capacity, and you're going to set yourself up to literally not be able to function because if you load them up, say even 20 hours a week, and they quit, and you're still loaded up with yours, what happens, right?

What happens with that work?

So we have to think.

I mean, this like in a positive way because we have to plan for worst-case scenario, which is they're going to leave, and if that happens, it doesn't mean don't hire, right?

Of like, well then why should I hire?

It means cool, like this could happen.

So if that happens, how are these clients going to get covered?

That's why we have the hiring pipeline, so we always have people that we're interested in and talking to, and we can talk further about that.

But this is where I would say having you as the buffer, like there always has to be somebody for that field buffer of fill-in, right?

And so when it was just me, and I like was the only cleaner, and I started hiring people, I was the only buffer, which was difficult.

And then once I started hiring more, we all started becoming more buffers because they were all part time and flexible.

So that's another thing, is hiring part timers.

I think is going to be definitely the way to go because less eggs in one basket.

If one doesn't work out, it's not so painful.

And a lot of times, if you had two part timers, one could absorb some of the hours, and you absorb the other hours, right?

So it's not as it's not all on you, if you will.

If it was just one full timer.

So I also think that you probably can't, you can't guarantee full-time hours for anybody right now.

So that you're setting yourself up for failure if you attempt to.

I definitely didn't for the first several years hire full-time people because I couldn't guarantee the hours.

So that's going to be one of the things.

And you know, this is this answer depends everybody, is completely individual based on your financial needs because some people who I talk to do not like they are not dependent on that income as a cleaner.

They can live off of their spouse or whatever, and they can immediately get all of those clients off of them.

So that may be your case, or it may be the case that you need to still be cleaning at least on some of those houses, so that you have a higher percentage of income from those cleans.

So that, and for the most part, it's probably going to be gradual anyway.

It's not like you hire somebody tomorrow and next week you're off of all of your cleans and you're only making a percentage of the cleans all of a sudden.

So it's probably not likely that would happen anyway.

It would be a gradual, you know, shift over.

So I think, you know, for like, if I were you, if I were you, I would hire a very part-time person so that it's not so painful.

You train them up.

They go to a couple, maybe they help you with first times.

Well, I it just depends.

So you could do a couple different things depending on how many hours they're available.

So let's say they are part time.

You could have them come to any first time clean with you, and that client is now their client, and see how they do.

And then any of your clients that are like pretty flexible or agreeable, have that new staff member come with you like twice.

Make sure they do it perfect.

You hand it over to them, and you do a quality check on that first or even second clean by themselves.

That's how you do the proper pass off, and you're seeing, are they reliable?

Because if they don't show up for you on a first time, like, it's not as bad as like a recurring client, right?

If they, if they ghost you or something like that, because you haven't really established that relationship, and you could bust out a first time if you need to.

So sorry, I know I just babble a lot.

That Celsius is just hitting right now.

I'm like, I love that for you.

I'm with you.

But the only thing that gets me about it is, so, like, let's say I hire somebody and over time it could take six months, I give them all of my houses, and I'm no longer cleaning anymore.

Like, then they quit, and now I've got two people's worth of regular business.

How do you navigate that?

If it's just me plus an employee, and I give them everything as well as take more, and then they leave.

So, I mean, that's going to happen.

Like, that's the natural like progression of things.

Is that literally is going to happen?

You always have to be looking at capacity of like, once they start to get full, you should already be hiring again.

If you are having that kind of lead pipeline, it's you need to have this pipeline of people to hire so that you could talk.

Like, if I quit, if I work for you and I quit today, you should be messaging somebody today that you already have in mind.

When can you start, right?

Or if my schedule, if I'm at, if I'm available for 40 hours, and I'm at 30 already, and you're getting a steady amount of leads and your close rate's good, well, we literally know I'm about to be full.

So hire now, because training takes a while.

And what if that person does not?

Like, depending on what your close rate is and how many leads you're getting, like it's going to be a very rapid, like one to maybe four cleaners, like part timers for you.

Like it, it, it ideally goes quick, quicker than you think, in that first time of getting part timers in, because you have a full schedule, you have new clients that are coming in, so they have to go somewhere.

And so when that person does inevitably quit, you have a plan in place so that you're not full.

You can step in, cover that temporarily, and a new person is starting right away.

You train them on these houses.

Now it's their houses.

Like, that's how I would do that.

So we want you not on any houses, so that when slash if that happens, you step in, you train the new person, boom, and it's just that's the cycle until you can afford to get a buffer person or have buffer hours, meaning building like on-call time into one of your cleaner schedules.

Like, that's what we do.

Now we have a fully on-call person.

So that is what I would, and that's why it's so important we get your schedule open, because then when that situation happens, it doesn't like, there's no, there's no, it, it sucks, but it's not like impossible, right?

Because you do have to like I had to go back into the field again and again and again, right?

For frankly years, as I was building, because I was pushing hard and fast.

And so when somebody quit, and we had, oh shit, there's 20 hours, I would spread it.

You know, we'd all kind of work together as a team, but I would get pulled back into cover, but I'd be immediately hiring.

So that's where I would suggest, you know, my group interview process, getting Indeed ads going, or just Indeed in general, like really pushing that, and not being afraid to even pay, like, I think we pay like fifteen dollars a day or something like that.

Oh wow, they charge by the day?

Yeah, I think they charge by the day, and you can like turn them off and things like that.

So either way, you just need to be interviewing every single week.

Like, that's what you need to do.

We literally are interviewing every week.

We do group interviews, just virtual, multiple times a week that they can sign up for.

We invite everybody who applies, unless we happen to personally know them and that they're, you know, a crackhead or a psycho, and then we don't invite them.

Or if they didn't show up, like, to a previous invite, we don't invite them.

So we do track who no-shows, and then you do the group interview.

If you like somebody and they tell you the availability, we invite them to a individual solo interview, which is more like a traditional conversation, and that's also virtual.

And then we offer them the job.

So because we're doing that, like, if somebody quit today, we have a list of people that we have talked to in the past month who we have options, and that's what I want for you, is like, it like people are going to quit or you're going to have to fire, like, you're held hostage if you don't have this pipeline going.

Because if you wait to start looking for people until somebody like quits, you are like, that's when people are like, screw this, I I can't do it because it's too late.

And so I think this would be one of the first things to implement and just say, if if people are like, well, when are you hiring?

Like, we, we typically hire one position a month because most likely you are right, so, like, with the way you're growing and, like, especially over the next couple months, you're going to be bringing in people pretty rapidly, so that, that is where I think, I think you need to get that moving sooner rather than later.

How long does it take you to train somebody?

It depends how many hours they are available because obviously, the, the fewer hours they are available in a week, the longer amount of days, if you will.

But let's say a traditional full-time person, so 30 hours or more a week, they are going to be training for like seven to ten days before they are released.

Yep, meaning work days, not like weekdays.

So Monday through Friday of the first week, if they are available full-time, the first day is going to be orientation, the and getting like their kit and supplies, that type of thing.

Days two through four, they are going to be with the trainer, and those are going to be control homes, so my manager's houses.

And we used to not do it that way.

We didn't do that for years, and you may not be able to do that either right now.

So don't hold yourself to that level.

But is there some aspect of control that you could have over those first couple houses, whether it's your house, a friend's house, a client who gets a discounted rate in order to use be used as a training home, or things like that?

Just so it's very hard to train when you're trying to stick to a like normal schedule, like, and get through a house, and also teach them how to do it.

That's how I did it for years, and I just threw them to the wolves, and they sunk or they swam, but it's not the swam, they sunk, swam, they sunk or swam.

I think that's the way to say that, or I'm going to say swam.

That's a good one, but it's not ideal.

That's not the best way to have somebody learn, and the turnover was high because it was stressful.

So if you can do any aspect of control, that's great.

And then actually on the fourth control home, technically, is my best friend's house, where you know we have a lot of flexibility.

She gets free house cleanings whenever we need to train somebody, so it's a nice perk.

And then the following week, that like seven through ten time is going to be, they're going to go with any cleaner.

Then at that point, go to regular clients' houses, and they're getting that independence.

But the biggest thing is, do not let them clean by themselves.

So like when you were talking about Matthew McMetherson, and she was like off in the house and she wandered off, like that wouldn't have even been possible unless they said they went to the bathroom or went out to get milk or something and they left completely, because they are, they are glued to the trainer, right?

Like, they are watching the trainer, like it's, they watch, then it's, they like the first day of cleaning, they are watching and observing, the second day they are cleaning and the trainer is observing, the trainer is not touching anything, they are correcting in the moment, because if you separate too fast, of like, cool, you saw this, now go clean this bathroom by yourself, they may get the end result right, but they may have done it in like the most inefficient, stupid way possible.

They may have done the floors first and then worked all the way back and then redid the floors, like you don't know if they're moving efficiently.

You also don't know if it was a kind of clean house, if they actually touched everything, right?

Like, it could be that they didn't.

They didn't do everything correctly.

So, it's so important that you do not separate from them really at all, especially in those first couple days.

Do you ever have them like watch any kind of training videos, or is it all hands-on in the house with your trainers?

So, we have our orientation process, which is many, many hours of like video content.

It is not how to clean, though.

There is a like start of the clean.

Like, we have start, start and end procedures that they follow, and that's actually like a printed out list that they everybody has access to.

And so, we go over that.

We go over like how to behave in a house, how to communicate with clients, how to like move throughout a house, and, and all of these things.

But, we don't actually have like, this is how you clean a toilet.

We do that all, all of that hands-on.

However, there are some good, like, online.

Like, if you want that, I know that Rescue My Maid Service has a good training cleaning tech boot camp.

We tried it, but honestly, like, I didn't feel like it was like with what we are, like, very robust hands-on.

I didn't feel like it was adding enough value to keep it.

However, if you aren't able to do that robust, which I wasn't able for a long time, then it could be a really good one.

Also, Sharon Tinberg has a really good, like, video training modules as well.

That's based on, like, speed cleaning methods.

I have not used it personally.

I have seen it though, and it's pretty well done.

So, if that's something you would like, then there are resources available.

I will never be creating that in my business.

It's something that's came up multiple times, and I'm like, they're just going to learn it.

Like, I'm not gonna make them watch a video on how to clean a toilet.

They're gonna just watch and then do cleaning a toilet.

Yeah.

The company that I worked for, she did have training videos, but I'm, I don't really, I don't necessarily think it's something that I would require of an employee that I hired.

I kind of would be interested in seeing, like, just seeing for myself how somebody did that, because I really don't necessarily believe that I'm the best cleaner out there.

I think that my clients like me because they trust me.

I'm when I say I'm gonna come, like I don't even necessarily think that it's about the cleaning.

Like I'll probably hire people that are better cleaners than me.

Yeah, I have definitely better cleaners for sure than me, and you know, I was good, but I wasn't like probably the best.

But the point was, is because I had the checklist, even like when it was me cleaning from day one, I had the checklist, and I was leaving it behind, so that when and that's why I'm like, I think you should start doing this now.

Because when you do, if the goal is in one year you're out of the field, well, guess what?

All of your current clients are going to have a stranger in their house, and the checklist is something that would unify what you're doing now to what they're going to be doing.

And so, if you can provide that, it eases that transition, because it's like, okay, they're following Ashley's same checklist, like they're doing the process.

She trained her.

There was this transition period, like it's going to make them feel less likely to look around and start trying to find stuff, because if you just look at, the, cool, this is all that was done.

It's not me trying to like discern, okay, what did they do?

It just, we, I feel like that helps us get less complaints, you know, and a lot, a lot less qual, and just a lot less quality issues.

We have excellent quality because of the checklist, because they know damn well if they fill that thing out, like they're there to do it, and we are still doing paper, even though ZenMaid has the digital checklist feature, which I think is wonderful, a wonderful addition.

From a sales perspective, I really like that tangible.

Like, this got left behind.

The cleaner can leave a little cute note.

So, it's a it's a great tool.

But I also we have a lot of houses with very bad reception because we're in such rural area.

So I don't want my cleaners like struggling because they're not on the Wi-Fi or whatever and trying to see what they need to do.

So I still, I'm, that's the one thing that is the one piece of paper I'll be like, yep, still, we're still doing that, a paper checklist.

I can definitely see the value in that.

I've looked at the checklists on ZenMaid, and I think that they're perfect.

I mean, it, I guess lays out every little thing that needs to be, but I, I guess I feel like it's kind of time-consuming to have to pull out your phone so frequently.

Yeah, especially if you're touching, if you're cleaning.

It also could be a perception thing.

We have had issues with that in the past.

Or we tell our cleaners that if a client is around and they see you, if you are talking or on your phone for work purposes, say it to the client because they, it's a bad impression of like, oh, the cleaner was on their phone the whole time.

It's like, well, yeah, they were checking their checklist.

They were communicating with the office.

So it's like they need to verbalize it.

So if we can just eradicate that.

Not to knock the digital, like, anybody using the like, that's awesome, fantastic.

I'm glad you're using the digital checklist.

This is the one thing I'm old school, and I think that there's a lot of benefits to it.

So if you started doing that now, Ashley, one, it's going to allow you to discern, like, okay, what is it that I do?

What is it that the company, like, I want our standard package to be?

What is our add-on services, right?

Like, if you can't very succinctly, like, describe what is it that you do, and, like, in a list form, it's going to be really hard to train.

It's also hard to sell because it's like, well, what makes you, like?

What do you have versus, you know, Sally down the street?

So I think that would be really valuable, especially when you're going to these higher-end homes.

Like, a lot of them aren't used to that.

Like, they're used to hiring, like, an individual cleaner and who just shows up and, like, that lady did a good job.

Maybe they're nervous to hire a company or what have you.

So I think it just is such a, it's a weirdly, very, like, impactful thing.

I remember when I still was doing walkthroughs.

One of my very first houses, and we had them for years.

The husband was a surgeon, she was a stay-at-home mom.

They had four kids at the time, and gorgeous house.

They lived on the golf course, and I walked in, and I was so nervous.

I was 22, and I liked I had my polo shirt, and I had my checklist, and I put it on the counter.

I was like, this is everything I can do for you.

And they, when I say, they freaked out over this.

They're like, I've not, I've never seen anything like this before.

They were just, I don't know if it was because he was a surgeon, and they probably follow checklists, but like, they were so dazzled.

Like they literally handed over their key, and like, because they were going to Disney World, and they're like, just come whenever, deep clean the house whenever you can.

Like the first time they met me, because it looked like I had my shit together.

So like, it's very impressive.

I mean, at 22 years old, me and my husband were talking about this the other day about how my business is growing, and 35 years old, I guess I finally figured out what I'm gonna do with my life, and I was telling him about your success, and he was like, "Damn, I wish you had like figured.

We just wanted to scrub toilets for a living ten years ago.

We would have bypassed a lot of stress that we went through."

But I feel like ten years ago, my mindset was like, "I'd rather chew glass and shit razor blades than clean shit off the toilet for the rest of my life."

And now I'm like, "Great, nobody talks to me."

I listen to music or I listen to Stephanie while I clean shit off a toilet."

And I'm... Oh, it really is amazing, just like how much when we change, but also like what we perceive as like the a career path, like an actual viable career path that can make us a lot of money, and I think like one part of that is just the ego of it.

Of, when I was younger, especially, I was so concerned about how I was perceived by others and what people thought.

So, like, yeah, it's embarrassing.

Of, like, what, like this is an embarrassing thing to do.

Where now it's just like the one.

I mean, genuinely, we get to help people, so that's an amazing thing.

But just knowing of, you know, you're laughing all the way to the bank.

Like it's not embarrassing.

We're probably going to make more money than them.

We have freedom and we get to genuinely help people.

So, like, I don't know.

It just, I feel very differently that I did when I was younger.

A hundred percent.

I would have.

I mean, I'm not a pretty, I'm not really a judgy person, but I probably would have liked.

So you're 35 and, you're cleaning out.

And what pisses me off is that I have a I have a college degree that I wasted money on.

Like, I didn't need it to do what I'm doing now.

If I had figured this out a long time ago, I would have saved money and time.

Yeah, I know.

I definitely feel like when I do have kids, like, I'm not going to push them to do, you know, anything.

Of course, but I definitely want to like not necessarily be like the traditional path of you have like there's only one way, right?

Of this, you know, you go get a four-year or even longer.

Obviously, if you want to be, you know, a certain thing like a teacher or a doctor or a lawyer or something, you have to.

But, I mean, yeah, like being self-employed, there's so much like ability to learn without going to college.

It's just, it's amazing.

So, yeah.

I mean, you're on the path that you know you're meant to be on, and this is clearly the time for you to do this thing.

So I think there's some very like quick wins that you can implement to set yourself up for more success with what you're trying to achieve.

So definitely the client guidelines, getting checklists in place, maybe AIing a pricing calculator that suits you and based off of like how fast you clean and what you guys do, just as a baseline, just so you know.

Based on our checklists, our first-time cleans we do 150 square foot per hour of occupied homes, of vacant homes.

So a move-out or deep clean for us is going to be 100 square foot per hour, and that's all the interiors of everything, the cabinets, the appliances, that type of stuff, and then maintenance cleans can be anywhere from 650 to like 800 square foot per hour, just depending on how they live, you know, master bathroom, that type of stuff, how many pets.

So yeah, those are kind of the numbers that we are looking at, and that seems to be, you know, when I first started, I was way off of what I like.

I would consistently underestimate because I was like, oh, we can get this done, and we just we couldn't.

It was just not possible.

So, that like those numbers may sound slow, but it's like it started out a lot faster, and we just kept getting like more accurate with what reality was when it came to those first times, especially.

So, I would really start locking in on your production rates.

Like, time yourself.

Like, I like maybe not in every in every house, but you do need to figure out like, like, audit it.

And what you can do is, if you are like, you're using ZenMaid, are you actually clocking in and out?

Not consistently, no.

Okay, start doing that right now because you need to like actually get those that data so that, like, that's your goldmine of information of how fast you're actually cleaning.

Make sure the square footage is entered in there, and then once you export those appointments, give it to Claude.

It can figure out all of your, like, how fast does Ashley clean on these types of houses?

Because it'll be able to see, was this a first time clean?

Is this a maintenance clean?

How often are you going?

And if you're putting notes in there like they have dogs, it can start to see pattern of like, if one dog it takes on average 20 more minutes, and then now we can price like going forward.

So that's one tool where like the AI is really amazing of just like discerning the data.

But the only way it can do that is if it, if you're inputting that stuff.

So immediately start clocking and act as if you're an employee of yourself, like, and just do everything that you would want an employee to do.

So your price estimator, like, do you just type like a formula into Excel based on what Claude told you?

Is that how it works?

It can just build it for you, like, literally.

So we use Google Drive for pretty much everything.

So Google Sheets is the like Google equivalent of Excel.

So I say Drive or I see say Sheets versus Excel.

So when I say that, it all means the same thing.

But yeah, if I literally am like, cool, I'm trying to make this pricing calculator, here is all of my production rate information.

Just export all of your past appointments that you have clock in data and the square footage and those notes in.

It can say, awesome, looks like these are your production rates, and just say, great, can you build me a calculator for this?

And it'll build it for you.

And then you can just, when you're on the phone or whatever you're doing a walkthrough, you can just plug it in, and it'll spit out those numbers for you, or a range, depending on you know what you're kind of aiming for.

So yeah, AI is amazing.

So do you think that tomorrow, when I go do this walkthrough, I should say I'm gonna take all these notes home, and I'll give you an answer tomorrow morning?

Or do you think that I should have some kind of figure?

No, don't give her a price during the walkthrough.

Nope.

Even if she pushes you, just be like, I really like, I'll get back to you tomorrow.

I'll send over the full proposal, like, and you could even call her and be like, I will call you tomorrow, and we can go over the proposal together on the phone, so that you can answer objections during that phone call.

That's really the ideal, is to go over the price on the phone, so you can, when she is like gasping or pissed off, you can be like, well, this is why, you know, like what or what is the budget you had in mind?

That type of thing, or like, what what could you do?

And if she says, "Well, I was hoping to be $250," because we, you know, if I throw out that $300 number, she's like, "I was really hoping to keep it at about $250 per visit."

Well, great, we could rotate these, or we could work off of a priority list, and I'll just get through as much as I can.

And maybe there's some like spare bedrooms that don't need to be done every time, or a whole floor that, like, there's some houses we just wouldn't do the basement every other time, or whatever the heck, you know, solutions.

You can come up with solutions, but if you send it over email and don't hear back from her, like, you can't give her those options because you're not there to answer all of the questions in her head.

So, yeah, do not give her a price in person.

Any time I've been pushed to do that, I always kick myself.

Of like, you don't actually know if that's the price.

You haven't thought about it.

It's like a pressure thing, you know.

You need to, you need to see it.

It's wild to me that ZenMaid gave me like the $900 whatever dollar price.

Yeah, I'm curious like how it.

When you inputted it, it wasn't even $400, which I think based off of what this house looks like, 400 would be too low based off of what I've like I looked it up on Zillow and it looks like there's a lot to it.

So I don't even think that 400 would be enough, but I'm gonna have to put thought into it before tomorrow because I'm a little bit nervous.

Yeah, and don't be afraid to be like, you know, is there Zillow interior pictures like of the house?

Okay, cool.

We'll give that listing to AI and be like, here's the actual house.

Like, what do you think?

You know, like get that information and here's the things that I'm going to do and like, like really utilize those online resources to come up with a price.

If you're nervous because you're, you see it like because you don't have that production rate auditing in place yet for yourself, you are still like guessing a little bit because you don't know, so you know, it's like just literally tallying up.

Okay, cool.

There's this many bathrooms.

There's this many kitchens.

There's this many bedrooms, and you just start tallying it up, you know, and until you're feeling confident in that number.

I've never used Claude before.

Is it that much of a difference in what you can get out of AI?

Pay for Claude?

Paying, not necessarily.

I don't think you need to pay for it.

I think that's based on like usage rates, is what the cost is.

I might be totally wrong because we pay for it, so I'm not sure what the free versus paid is.

But I think it works just as good.

And ChatGPT can do this too.

Like, you don't need to use Claude.

I am a big Claude fan.

I think it's we use it for different things.

So, any like hard thinking, definitely I prefer Claude.

But I think ChatGPT is excellent for design and photos.

Like, for example, I am redoing our now hiring page on our website.

I went to ChatGPT and said, "Please help me come up with ideas visually."

And then, because when I had Claude do it, it looked like shit.

And so then I screenshotted and sent it over to Claude, be like, "Build this for me," because I have it connected to my website.

It literally built the whole page like that.

So, like, when I think of like your website, for example, like I would love to see that look a bit different.

And I think you could really build it out of like what services.

Like, it's probably not showing up at all from a search engine optimization perspective, like SEO, because when I look at your website, I'm looking at it right now.

Expert home cleaning services, reliable thorough cleaning for homes and offices.

That's your top.

That is your above the fold, like what I can see when I first load the load the page.

I don't know what town it's that you're what, what area you're in, should be in there.

Like, it should be clear immediately where you service when the page loads because it doesn't say it.

Okay, says in Hanover.

When I scroll down quite a bit, it tells me in Hanover.

So, yeah, this I would, I think you could build this website out really really amazingly.

And how you can do that again is with Claude or ChatGPT.

Actually, if you already are paying for Chat, what you're looking for is, well, where did this website get built?

Like, what is the platform it's built on?

Go, you know, GoDaddy.

So, is it a WordPress website?

Do you know, or what's that mean?

Okay, it's kind of the platform that it's built on, is a WordPress type.

But when you want to make a change, where do you go?

You log into GoDaddy, or yeah, okay, okay.

So you may be able to connect your AI to that.

I'm not sure.

It just depends what that looks like on the back end.

But literally, I have Claude build my website.

Like when I want to rebuild something, it can do that just by, you know.

And then you can say like, this is the goal.

This is what I want it to look like.

And you may not even know what you want it to look like, but like you can ask, "What are best practices for a home service website?"

I these are my core values.

This is what I want to focus on, and this is the area I want to serve.

Blah blah blah.

Like, even just coming up with the wireframe, so you know what direction of like what pages do I need, that type of thing.

And you can shamelessly look at my website if you want, because I'm pretty proud of it now.

So I looked at it yesterday, I believe.

Yeah.

Heck yeah.

So yeah, I would, I would definitely lean into that heavily.

If you're doing it yourself, of course you can hire out any of that stuff, but it does cost money.

So I think you can bootstrap a lot of stuff now because of AI.

So I definitely would start.

I would start first in all those protective things, like, get registered with the state to hire, make sure that you have the insurance in place, make sure that you get those client guidelines in place.

Like, there's so many like those kind of protective mechanisms, as well as employee documents in place, so that when you are ready to hire, you have stuff for them to sign, right?

Because they should be signing about 30 things when you hire them that protect you.

Yeah, I had the W-2 paperwork printed off for the one that didn't work out, and I like filled in what I like the date.

I filled in a couple things for, and I was like, I could have like not wrote anything and saved this in case I ever actually... Yes, yeah.

So there's and then just like protective policies of you know, like the employee agreements, like they need to have you know, just we have them sign so much stuff, saying like this is what you're being held accountable to, so that if they come back and say anything or try to get unemployment wrongly or say you did XYZ, you can protect yourself because a hundred percent of the time employees are gonna are the hardest part of this job.

Like, especially, you've never really had them before, like I didn't, and so just like the shit show that was employees and still is, sometimes is it's the hardest part.

So things that you could put into place to protect yourself would be very, very wise, so that even if they do leave on a bad note, at least they're not coming back to bite you, you know, in other ways.

Have you had to pay unemployment yet to anybody?

Yeah.

So as a business, we have unemployment insurance.

So as soon as you read, you know, you're registered with the state, you start hiring W-2s.

You have something called unemployment insurance, and so you don't pay that.

Like, if say their paycheck from unemployment is 300 bucks, they're not.

That's not getting paid from me.

That's getting paid from my unemployment insurance, like pot, if you will.

And if I have enough people that get unemployment, that rate is going to go up, and that's so it's you're paying it indirectly, if you will.

And so that's where if they don't work for you long enough, it's going to actually draw from their former employer, which is nice.

So yes, we have absolutely had people get unemployment much more successfully in the earlier years.

Very rarely, I don't think anybody has successfully gotten unemployment on us for years now.

And that's because if they are leaving, they have there is a policy, they broke, right?

So, meaning they got fired because if they quit, they're not going to get unemployment.

That's not possible.

But if they get fired, which has happened many times, and they try, like, there because we are so we are like ironclad with our documentation.

We are ironclad with our written warnings and having them sign and saying, "Yes, I acknowledge that I broke this policy."

Blah blah blah.

So that when they try to get unemployment, we you have to have everything like buttoned up to the letter, of like, nope.

They did this, this, and this, and they said that they understood that this is against policy.

Like, so that's where all that comes from, of like, protecting yourself.

And I'm not opposed to people getting unemployment if they rightfully should.

But if they got fired for bullshit, like, they shouldn't get unemployment off of me.

Like, they didn't, they didn't act right, you know?

Yeah, I completely agree.

So yeah, I think there's a lot of a lot of little steps, and obviously, I'm, I'm like so used to having a Fathom, like, summary to send you.

Like, don't worry, the Fathom's recording, but like, this is obviously this is recorded, but you'll, you'll be able to work through all of the to-dos, if you will.

But yeah, I think even if you could put together like a checklist, like today to have printed off, so that you can show that lady something of like, "Cool, this is my standard package.

These are the add-on services.

Like, if you like, whatever you offer, you know, just so you have something tangible for her."

Okay, yeah, I'll probably do that this afternoon.

I will put some documentation together to make me look a little bit more.

Yeah.

It'll make you feel more confident too, because you have something to cling to as you're doing the walkthrough.

I'm not nervous.

Like, I mean, I've done this before, but because she seems a little bit more higher end than what I'm used to, I'm like, I really want this.

I really want this house because I feel like that.

Like, this is the push I need to maybe pay some on paying to try to get our first employee, I guess.

No, I agree.

I think you could really open some doors for you, and you know, higher end clients can be really great because they have higher end friends who have houses.

Yes, she's definitely in a higher tax bracket than me, so I want all higher tax, yeah, to house, okay.

I know we have a one family who all of the daughters at one point, except the youngest, had us in their home.

We still clean out the mom's house.

We clean out their business and like they, I mean, I, it was my personal client that I would.

She was my last client that I refused to give up until I was pretty much like, I can't keep cleaning like this because she was weekly and I mean she tips so good.

My whole like apartment and our office was like furnished with her like hand me down like home decor because she was always redecorating and just like she, like, she's still.

I mean, she's been with us for seven years now, and like just, I mean, a house that you could only dream of, you know.

Just, and I like every week I'd be like, oh, I love, and she'd let me eat her snacks and all sorts.

She was just amazing, and so, so yeah, those clients can be really wonderful.

She ever complain about your work or your employees' work?

Oh yeah, my employees for sure, never me because I'm, you know, perfect.

But just kidding.

But yes, actually, she was my very, my very first employee I hired, Gabby, the infamous Gabby.

She went to this woman's house and she cleaned so fucking badly, and so that is how I... She was like, "I just want you," and so I went back and I cleaned for her, and I was her cleaner for years after that because she was so burned by Gabby.

She also liked having the owner, and I liked having her so, but all of her daughters were, or let's see, two of them are still clients, and I never cleaned for either of them.

So, but yeah, she definitely had her, we had some some bad experiences with her for sure.

Yeah, I mean, I just hear you say so so much positive things about how you don't get a lot of complaints and your Google reviews are always fabulous.

So, like, I don't, I don't know.

I aspire to be you.

You're that's many years into it, hon.

Because yeah, I mean, that was literally one.

That was my first employee.

It was a shit show, and yeah, it never reached Google, but internally, like, it was a fucking mess, you know.

And so there was a lot of problems.

There was a lot of things.

I think that the checklist definitely helped in those early days because that, like, at least there was a baseline of like, what the hell are we even doing here?

Of like, okay, cool.

At least we're all working in the same language.

But yeah, there, there was definitely issues going back, re cleans, you know, refunds, that type of stuff.

It just luckily we did not have a lot of things going to like online reviews.

Like people were willing to handle it internally.

So I think also just me being like psychotic about asking, like, how did it go?

Like, what, you know, how are you feeling?

Like, are you happy right now?

Like, is there anything we can do better to really get that, like, force them to give that feedback?

Which the service rating features is really wonderful in ZenMaid now, because like, it can, it can send out and ask for that internal feedback, especially when you have new hires.

Like, that's a really useful feature because then you can get that internally before they go on online and blast you.

So, but the biggest thing is just ask people.

You know, like, don't let it fester.

Anytime you have a new person in a house, that is the most likely time that they're going to be pissed off.

Like, and that person is going to fuck up.

So, like, just if you send somebody new into a house, follow up.

How did it go?

Anything that we can do better for the next time?

You know, like, that simple little thing can help solve a lot of problems.

Yeah, I will say that, like, the few times that I have passed over a client to somebody else, like my 1099s, for the first clean that my 1099 does, I always give like a fifty-dollar discount for that, and they've been very happy with the few times that I've had to do that.

So I'm gonna, I'll continue to do that in the future, give a little discount as an incentive to letting me send in somebody new.

Yeah, and that's a good tool for sure.

I mean, it just, if they're really like feeling hesitant to try somebody else, that kind of thing.

So that can be great when you do get employees.

I think like you just going with, and then being like, this is the handoff.

I'm handing off the baton.

I'll come, that like, and again, just saying this is how it's going to work.

I am going to come the next two cleans with Jessica, and then she is going to come and clean independently, and I will come check her work, and we will make sure you're happy because I want this to be as perfect as it is right now, and like just be very like, not like, is this okay?

Like, no, this is what's happening.

Like, I'm hiring.

Yeah, I mean, luckily most of my clients are like fantastic.

They trust me, and they know that I wouldn't send somebody into their home that I don't that I think would disrespect their home or anything like that.

I'm sure that will change as time goes on, and I'm not as hands-on as I am.

But so far, all of my clients that I have right now know me, and they trust me, and they know that I would.

Yeah, I mean, I'd say just stop hiring meth heads.

That would be the goal.

I guess I just lied right there because I did bring a meth head into that one lady's house, but he was, he's like one of my coolest clients, and she likes me because I break bake her sourdough and bring her chicken eggs, and so she was like, "I'll forgive you one time with the, this one time with the meth head."

I said, "Appreciate you."

That's awesome.

So don't, yeah, don't let that, you know, dissuade you from hiring again.

It's gonna happen.

Just, just accept it.

It's like, yep, like we're just trying this out, and, and just not having that, having high expectations of their performance, but also knowing like the faster you can get over that disappointment, the better you're gonna be.

Because if you let that get you down like too long, and, and like scar you, it's gonna stop you from getting where you need to go.

Because literally, like, I mean, that, like, probably everybody's gonna.

Everybody, I mean, again, everybody is going to leave at some point, whether through death or you know some other obscure way, like they're going to leave.

So just having a healthy understanding of like, cool, if that's the reality, how do I make it so that is less impactful, right?

Like, how do I make it so that the client doesn't feel that, or that I don't feel it as much?

Well, you need hiring processes in place, and you need to have very strict standards of what is it that we do, so that it is as simple as possible for somebody new to come in and nail it, right?

And that means really good ZenMaid notes on every client, right?

Like, what do they like?

What are they picky about?

And like, so all of our notes are the same exact structure.

This is how you get in.

This is where the garbage bags are.

This is where the toilet brushes are kept.

This is where you put the garbage.

This is the dog's name, like so that when somebody new comes in or fills in because somebody's sick, they can seamlessly come in and nail the clean, right?

And so that's we just encourage that level of extensive note taking, so that pass off can be really smooth.

Yeah.

Cool.

Okay.

Hell yeah.

Well, you got a lot of things to do, Ashley.

I hope you're ready to be busy, and hopefully we can reconnect at some point in the future, and I'll have all kinds of updates for you.

Hell yeah!

I'd love to do a follow-up.

We could do a catch-up in a few months, maybe even like six months, and see what you're, what you're doing, and that could kind of be a good, like, all right, let me get shit done.

Like, cool.

If you want to be out of the field in a year, well, let's, let's, let's make it happen.

All right, I'm all for it.

Thank you for your help, and I hope to stay in the future.

Oh, I don't know what CleanCon is, but it sounds fun.

Could I hang out with you at CleanCon?

Oh, it was amazing.

It was last week, so the next one won't be till I think it's next September.

They haven't announced where it is yet, but highly recommend if you if you like can can make it there.

It was really valuable to businesses of all sizes.

I learned a lot, and I have a lot of things that I want to implement from it.

So yes, and of course, if you're ever in Savannah, Georgia, you hit me up, and we'll hang out.

I bet we would have a lot of fun together.

You seem a lot like me, except for you had your shit figured out 15 years ago and I don't.

I'm divorced.

I'm, you know, I got lots of problems.

Don't worry, honey.

Don't we all?

We all got things going on.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

But yes, I would, I would love, and really, if you if you seriously like, I've had that where listeners have connected and we hang out in person when when they're coming through town.

So definitely, doors always open.

You're ever in Richmond?

Yeah, absolutely.

I love Virginia.

It's beautiful.

I've driven through it a couple times, and the, the, like, mountains freak me out.

Like looking over the cliff, and I'm like, I couldn't live here because it's just that, like, the gulches, like, are just really scary.

Yeah, yeah, but they're beautiful, but the draw.

Yeah, I don't know.

It freaks me out.

Like my stomach drops when I, like, can look over and it's just a giant cliff.

That can be kind of that can be intimidating.

Yeah.

Well, this has been awesome, Ashley.

Please, guys, leave her some love in the comments for being open, vulnerable, honest.

This is how we all learn.

I know that somebody listening has learned something from this conversation.

Leave it down below.

Hit that like.

Hit that subscribe.

And we'll see you on the next episode of Filthy Rich Cleaners.

Bye, guys.

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